and if the legislation fails to pass in Congress we can round them up and send them all to Gitmo-right?

Yes, lets withdraw from Iraq, Germany, South Korea, Bosnia and Japan while we are at it, because no war is justified.

Lets reneg on all our bi-lateral security agreements with Countries that constantly renew them with us, because they know how useful UN blue helmets are in stopping conflict - ask Rwandans, Lebanese, Darfuris, etc. That way the next time a war breaks out and the World clamors for our help, the enemies of the US can wait about a millisecond before continuing their slaughter and genocide.

Also the next time we try to build a coalition to stop an atrocity or genocide that the left wing condones as "worthy of confronting", other countries will take our commitment and our word seriously.

Good idea. I like it.

This idea ranks up there with most of the others on this site as unserious, flippant, wishful, and completely divorced from reality of the real world. Sorry to inform you that the rest of the world is out for its own benefit (preferably at our expense) and people actually hate us for what we are not for what we do and no amount of negotiation is going to solve anything if the other side has nothing to gain from negotiating.

Who poses the greatest threat to our national security?:

The Clueless Clods of the Loony Left who are either too lazy to learn the FACTS which PROVE the Iraq War is Fully Justified OR they are just too Stupid to be able to comprehend little things like facts.

People LIKE YOU who want to pull the troops BEFORE the job is complete.

-----------

Who poses the greatest threat to our national security?:

The Clueless Clods of the Loony Left who are either too lazy to learn the FACTS which PROVE the Iraq War is Fully Justified OR they are just too Stupid to be able to comprehend little things like facts.

People LIKE YOU who want to pull the troops BEFORE the job is complete.

-----------

Right on, Tricia. She isn't the only American bothered by the war in Iraq, the majority of Americans are, and they'd like to see it concluded asap. Now you guys, Alex and Neil, I suppose want "victory", then maybe you'd be willing to support pulling the troops out of Iraq, or perhaps you'd prefer to leave them there for the next hundred years, like John McCain?

Marde, if having troops in the Middle East for the next hundred years is what it takes to keep America and Americans safe, then, yes, that is what I want to do. Do I wish we were in a world where such intervention was unnecessary? Of course. Is that the world we live in now? Unfortunately no.

If we're living in a world where such intervention is necessary, which is not at all clear, it's a world we created. Our invasion of Iraq created the chaos of the Sunni Shia conflict and created an al Qaeda in Iraq. In the meantime bin Laden's al Qaeda flourishes in Afghanistan/Pakistan and now inspires followers around the world that are proving a not insurmountable challenge to police groups, and don’t require million man armies.

how does the death of a U.S solider in iraq contribute to our security? ----------- must be the oil.

I feel if our militaries leave Iraq, what will happen to the state matters of the country. And also if US does leave where will the terror people go, surly they are not going to go home and call it PEACE. Stragedy tells me, they will work on reenforcing their purposes and come back bigger and stronger. I wouldn't pull back, not wise to me.

First of all, I am a very experienced and very knowledgeable 73 year old who lived during WWII and am a Vet, And since I am an Agnostic Atheist Activist, I am sure no programmed religious robot following Bush around like some puppy dog.

As I have bee studying the Middle East (including Iraq) for 50 some years, I most probably know more about the subject than most, if not all, who have, and will answer here.

--------------------------

Mike

Your comment proves the only thing which exceeds your Infinite Ignorance of what is going on in Iraq is your Astronomical Arrogance that you have the slightest clue.

IF you actually knew what you were talking about, you never would have said any thing so completely STUPID!

--------------------------------

And "Mardé" the same applies to you.

IF you actually had sufficient information and knowledge of the facts, you would know the Iraq war was both fully justified and a necessary part of our war on terror.

And since you do not seem to know that, it is either because you are too lazy to get the facts or you are not bright enough to understand them.

Next, Oh Obviously Uninformed One, it was NOT our LIBERATION of Iraq which created the chaos of the Sunni Shia conflict, It was caused by TERRORISTS who intentionally caused some of the EXTREMIST on both sides to kill the ones the Terrorists had not already killed.

And IF you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know al Qaeda was in Iraq at least months, if not years BEFORE the war stated. They not only had agreements with Saddass's regime (1996) to KILL any Americans stationed in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, there was an Al Quada in north east Iraq where they had taken over an area including an entire town.

(Those al Quada fighters where taken out in the first part of the war by US Airborne troops and Kurdish forces.)

Next, Oh Illogical One, bin Laden was inspiring followers from around the world for many YEARS before the Iraq war ever stated.

Actually, all you and the others of your ilk prove when you post is how much you do not know and yet how much you falsely believe you do. You poor misguided little things.

The facts are you people are IGNORANT of the danger we face from the Moslem fanatics. Their plan, and they fully intend to do it, is to TAKE OVER THE ENTIRE PLANET and install a TALIBAN form of goverment.

IF they do this, it means women do not go school & are treated like shit. There would be NO dancing, NO Music and NO fun at all.

NO FREEDOM WHAT SO EVER!

Women would be beaten for not covering their bodes from head to toe. Men would be beaten for not growing beards and on and on and on.

Over FIVE times more Moslem Fanatics (100,000,000) have pledged to fight, KILL and die THAN THE US HAD IN OUR MILITARY DURING WWII.

(And most of those in our military were support people and NOT "combat troops were as ALL of Moslem fanatics are.)

Thus anyone with a fully functioning brain knows THE MOSLEM TERRORISTS ARE OUR NO ONE PROBLEM.

IF any of you are interested in learing some of the reason the Iraq war is fully justified, read the articles in my forum

http://community.adlandpro.com/forumShow.aspx?ForumID=10649

First of all, I am a very experienced and very knowledgeable 73 year old who lived during WWII and am a Vet, And since I am an Agnostic Atheist Activist, I am sure no programmed religious robot following Bush around like some puppy dog.

As I have bee studying the Middle East (including Iraq) for 50 some years, I most probably know more about the subject than most, if not all, who have, and will answer here.

--------------------------

Mike

Your comment proves the only thing which exceeds your Infinite Ignorance of what is going on in Iraq is your Astronomical Arrogance that you have the slightest clue.

IF you actually knew what you were talking about, you never would have said any thing so completely STUPID!

--------------------------------

And "Mardé" the same applies to you.

IF you actually had sufficient information and knowledge of the facts, you would know the Iraq war was both fully justified and a necessary part of our war on terror.

And since you do not seem to know that, it is either because you are too lazy to get the facts or you are not bright enough to understand them.

Next, Oh Obviously Uninformed One, it was NOT our LIBERATION of Iraq which created the chaos of the Sunni Shia conflict, It was caused by TERRORISTS who intentionally caused some of the EXTREMIST on both sides to kill the ones the Terrorists had not already killed.

And IF you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know al Qaeda was in Iraq at least months, if not years BEFORE the war stated. They not only had agreements with Saddass's regime (1996) to KILL any Americans stationed in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, there was an Al Quada in north east Iraq where they had taken over an area including an entire town.

(Those al Quada fighters where taken out in the first part of the war by US Airborne troops and Kurdish forces.)

Next, Oh Illogical One, bin Laden was inspiring followers from around the world for many YEARS before the Iraq war ever stated.

Actually, all you and the others of your ilk prove when you post is how much you do not know and yet how much you falsely believe you do. You poor misguided little things.

The facts are you people are IGNORANT of the danger we face from the Moslem fanatics. Their plan, and they fully intend to do it, is to TAKE OVER THE ENTIRE PLANET and install a TALIBAN form of goverment.

IF they do this, it means women do not go school & are treated like shit. There would be NO dancing, NO Music and NO fun at all.

NO FREEDOM WHAT SO EVER!

Women would be beaten for not covering their bodes from head to toe. Men would be beaten for not growing beards and on and on and on.

Over FIVE times more Moslem Fanatics (100,000,000) have pledged to fight, KILL and die THAN THE US HAD IN OUR MILITARY DURING WWII.

(And most of those in our military were support people and NOT "combat troops were as ALL of Moslem fanatics are.)

Thus anyone with a fully functioning brain knows THE MOSLEM TERRORISTS ARE OUR NO ONE PROBLEM.

IF any of you are interested in learing some of the reason the Iraq war is fully justified, read the articles in my forum

http://community.adlandpro.com/forumShow.aspx?ForumID=10649

you need to go read the forum of how we can improve our image in the world. I think you may be part of the problem. How can you be so arrogant to believe that we are doing anybody a favor by occupying their nation?

I also find it hard to believe that you, a veteran, honestly believe that our country will ever be taken over by the taliban.

Scare tactics are nasty, disgraceful, and dirty lies from the right to control the poplulation. I would think that being an athiest you would understand this considering the similarities between that and organized religion.

tell the Children the truth

"If we're living in a world where such intervention is necessary, which is not at all clear, it's a world we created."

Right, Marde... because the Middle East was a cradle of peace and prosperity prior to our invading Iraq.

"How can you be so arrogant to believe that we are doing anybody a favor by occupying their nation?"

Yeah, because prior to our arrival, they seemed to be doing so well on their own before. Assuming you define "well' as riding around in the desert on camels beheading each other.

"Assuming you define "well' as riding around in the desert on camels beheading each other."

your ignorance matches Reinhardt's arrogance.

you do realize that we have had a strong presence in the middle east and have interfered with thier affairs for many years, right?

Just a quick recap.

1980's Reagan and Bush administrations pour billions of dollars in to the region to support islamic fundamentalist groups to fight the soviet's in Afghanistan. Osama was trained and fought side by side with the CIA.

Thousands of civilians were killed and the chaos resulted in a power vacuum which the taliban filled.

On 9 June 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline, "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq..."

there is so much more but....

by my calculations we have been meddling in the affairs of iraq and the middle east for more than 25 years, but i am sure you were writting about the state of the region prior to 1980 right??

The best thing that we tried to get through congress was what Webb was pushing for - the return to the norm of you serve X time in Iraq you are required to get X time at home. That was a step in the right direction that I really hoped would make it.

"by my calculations we have been meddling in the affairs of iraq and the middle east for more than 25 years, but i am sure you were writting about the state of the region prior to 1980 right??"

Actually, uneducated, I was writing about the last several thousand years, not simply the last quarter century. My point was that the Middle East of 2008 doesn't look particularly different from the Middle East of 1508, or 1008, or 508, or 8. Our arrival on the scene (far longer than 25 years ago, by the way) didn't exactly halt some grand social, political, and economic upswing.

Like Dennis Kucinich said, close all foreign bases. The real enemy is corporate thugs who abuse power and reward dictators for letting them rape their people, lands and resources. Not everyone in the World Trade towers was as innocent as the maids, janitors and firemen.

I refer to the poll quiz question at right...

"Where should the next president expend the greatest effort to encourage democracy? :
Cuba
Iraq
Pakistan
Kosovo
Russia"

What's wrong with this quiz question? Two things:

(1) The question itself sums up everything that is wrong with US foreign policy.

(2) The only correct answer is 'United States', but it doesn't even appear as an option.

The left cheers the day we withdrew from Viet Nam despite the fact millions of people were slaughtered after our withdrawal in the killing fields of Cambodia and in Vietnam. The left never has to say I am sorry or admit their soul mates on the far left are responsible for more deaths in the world than any organized religion ever was. More deaths unless of course the left gets their way again and we withdraw from Iraq and millions are murdered by the radical Islamists in Iraq. Than al Qaeda will be emboldened to come after us because as Bin Laden said we are just a bunch of "paper tigers" who lack the will to win. So in Tricia's world view instead of winning the war in Iraq we should just admit defeat, withdraw from Iraq and wait for another 9/11. All because the left feels that the USA are the guilty ones and instead of defeating them we should try and make amends with al Qaeda who want us dead, yes dead.

It makes you think that you're smarter than the entire industrialized world? What makes you think that the vast majority of climatologists from across the globe are creating a conspiracy? What makes you think that the moneyed interests behind the emission of greenhouse gases are the good guys? What makes you think that Lingerie Wholesale unfathomable amounts of gas into the atmosphere has no effect on the planet?

---

Many of you are like some "singers" on American Idol who can't sing and when told they can't by the judges and nearly all of the audience, still believe they are great singers when they are TERRIBLE.

Many of you actually think you know what the hell you are talking about when you comments show the only thing which exceeds your MASSIVE Ignorance of the FACTS is your Astronomical Arrogance you have a Clue.

YOU DO NOT!

IF ignorance really is bliss, you must be in constant state of climax!

EVERYTHING I have said is backed up by PROVABLE FACTS!

Facts which those who are willing to learn, expend the time and energy to do so, and are intelligent enough to understand what the facts mean can find out for themselves what I am saying is factual.

The rest of you are really NOT worth my time

And Child, I AM not only smarter than at least 97.5 percent of all the people in the world, my Tested A.Q. which is the Ability to EFFECTIVELY use the IQ I have is nearly double everyone else's.

My long life with MANY MORE VARIED experiences mean I have more knowledge from them than nearly all others. even those as old as I am (74) have much h less tose younger than I.

Combine my experiences and my knowledge with my intelligence and he odds are very very high I am right and YOU are Wrong!

So go play with the other children in your jack yard and back off

Last, to the JERK who said to tell the truth.

Telling the TRUTH CHILD IS HOW I LIVE MY LIFE, IT IS WHAT I DO!

Neil C. Reinhardt

-----

---

Many of you are like some "singers" on American Idol who can't sing and when told they can't by the judges and nearly all of the audience, still believe they are great singers when they are TERRIBLE.

Many of you actually think you know what the hell you are talking about when you comments show the only thing which exceeds your MASSIVE Ignorance of the FACTS is your Astronomical Arrogance you have a Clue.

YOU DO NOT!

IF ignorance really is bliss, you must be in constant state of climax!

EVERYTHING I have said is backed up by PROVABLE FACTS!

Facts which those who are willing to learn, expend the time and energy to do so, and are intelligent enough to understand what the facts mean can find out for themselves what I am saying is factual.

The rest of you are really NOT worth my time

And Child, I AM not only smarter than at least 97.5 percent of all the people in the world, my Tested A.Q. which is the Ability to EFFECTIVELY use the IQ I have is nearly double everyone else's.

My long life with MANY MORE VARIED experiences mean I have more knowledge from them than nearly all others. even those as old as I am (74) have much h less tose younger than I.

Combine my experiences and my knowledge with my intelligence and he odds are very very high I am right and YOU are Wrong!

So go play with the other children in your jack yard and back off

Last, to the JERK who said to tell the truth.

Telling the TRUTH CHILD IS HOW I LIVE MY LIFE, IT IS WHAT I DO!

Neil C. Reinhardt

-----

-------

And FYI CHILDREN, those of us who actually have the knowledge, KNOW WE HAVE WON THE IRAQ WAR!

Nov, 22nd, 2008 WAS BEEN declared to be:

"VICTORY IN IRAQ DAY!"

Google it and read the FACTS!

Plus, the yesterday's Elections in Iraq have been a HUGE SUCCESS!

Neil C. Reinhardt

-------

Interesting site and this article. thanks for sharing this site with me.
Belford University

Hi Danny,

Thou Art Most Welcome!

One of the best ways to help keep up on Iraq are the following blogs.

The one which is posted by an Air Force Lt. who was a successful lawyer in private practice before 9-11. He joined the Air Force, served on Active duty, and is now in the reserves.

I try to read HIS BLOG every day.

http://airforcepundit.blogspot.com/

Murdoc is a friend and his blog covers many things. Most are about things which interest me and may well interest you as well.

http://www.murdoconline.net

Michael Yon is the single most respected free lance photojournalist who is covering Iraq & Afghanistan. He has great true stories and pictures in his blog.

One of his photos of a bloody dead very young Iraqi girl being carried very lovingly by a US soldier is one of the most famous photos of the Iraq War. The girl was killed by a terrorist bomber.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/

While this Blog takes a while to load (due the massive amount of information it contains) IT does have GREAT pictures and links to MANY other blogs which have a really LOT of Great information:

http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/

This blog has Links to MANY Very Current News Stories

http://hotair.com/

The following is one of the Most Popular Mil Blogs.
http://www.blackfive.net/

More of some of the Blogs which interest me.

http://armedandcurious.blogspot.com/

http://counterterrorismblog.org/

http://longwarjournal.org/

http://ilifta.blogspot.com/

http://www.windsofchange.net

http://www.iraqfiles.com/

http://www.blackwaterfacts.com

http://www.blogsofwar.com

http://www.smallwarsjournal.com

http://www.defensereview.com

http://www.defensetech.org

http://www.intel-dump.com

http://www.armytimes.com

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com

http://BillandBobsAdventure.blogspot.com/

I hope you find one or all of these worth youf time.

Please, TAKE CARE!

Neil C. Reinhardt

A Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, a Vet, and an Iconoclastic, Philosophizing Beach Volleyball Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!"

http://www.maaf.info/

Interesting post. Its also interesting to me that the question is the net good or bad for democracy persists, and persists something as a litmus test for people who get it. I think I get it, whatever that means.

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-----

First, I wish the IDIOTS who post their spam would DROP DEAD! They are SCUM. Total LOSERS who can not market without spamming.

Hi BGREEN66,

While I think the net is VERY GOOD for democracy in general, I do wish people would do what they can to assure what they are saying has some factual basis for their input. And I am positive the oppressive governments are very unhappy with the net.

That said, I fear what a Scottish Professor said about "Democracies" around the time the United States was founded is true. It was something to the effect that the average democracy only lasts around 200 years. And their demise is caused when they discover they can VOTE THEMSELVES MONEY!

Then, some years later, Ben Franklin repeated the same warning when he said something to the effect of: "Republics fail when the people learn they can vote themselves money."

And this, IS WHAT HAPPENED, in the LAST election.

----------

Before you read the rest of this, let me make it abundantly clear that I AM an Agnostic, Atheist
Activist who hates any government intrusion into our lives & someone who supports the total separation of Church and State. Thus, my support of people as religious as Palin and McCain in the last election was not one, I greatly liked. Still, they are so many, many, many times BETTER than the IDIOTS in office now, I had no other rational, informed, logical or intelligent choice.

And I am glad to report there were more than a few
other Atheists (Activists & others) who put their country BEFORE their religious concerns. They include three GENUIS Level friends, Eugene Volohk of the Volohk Conspiracy blog and Cliff Walker of Positive Atheism. Plus another whose name I can not
use due to how too many Christians treat those they know are Atheists!

----------

Between the OBOTS drinking Oduma's Kool Aid and the lying, dishonest highly biased media's 8 year attacks on Bush & his administration, their not ever in one place listing the many reasons which justify the Iraq war, their OVER reporting of any and all bad things in Iraq & their either UNDER reporting or NOT reporting at all the many good things which happened in our War On Terror, AND some total idiot conservatives who did not vote for McCain as he was not far enough to the Right, a sufficient number of fools voted Oduma into office.

They voted in a Dishonest, Lying, Elitist, Racist Socialist who is nothing other than a slick talking Con man! A person whose judgement is so poor and his integrity so low, he CHOOSES to have Convicted Felons who have stolen MILLIONS FROM US, a White & America Hating Racist preacher as well as TERRORISTS who have robbed our banks, blown up private companies, government facilities, Police Stations, Police Cars and who KILLED Americans to be counted among his GOOD Friends!

The ONLY difference between Oduma's chosen friends & Osama Bin Laden are the number of DEAD Americans!

So, I fear, our Republic may be on its last legs UNLESS the majority of the Voters vote OUT those who support Oduma and his policies in the next and all following elections. And this is NOT going to happen as long as the majority of the IDIOTS in our main stream media remain the incompetent fools they are.

Please, Take Care!

Neil

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